[Battlemesh] IGF 2018 WS #279 Scaling community networks

[pdbinder]

Hi Pedro, I agree there are all these risks. There are plenty of risks with colluding with State government too. Althea stands out for a few reasons to me. For one, they minted no coins. There is no get-rich-quick. Its also open source - so anyone can fork it. Its also true that each of us, and the communities we serve, have very different needs. My tribe would reject this project if it took government funding. My tribe rejects fiat and has taken to using crypto for everyday transactions. We used silver before that. My tribe celebrates the win-win that is free trade - and for the most part so does the greater community in my area. They want a pay service, its in their culture to trade and celebrate that trade as a win-win. Althea fits a lot of our needs. However, not all users will be part of my tribe. Not all users care. From what I heard at battlemesh, most users don't care. Its us, the builders that care about the tribe, community, philosophy, and economics of this project. That is why most users in my area don't think twice about paying $50 a month to a government enforced monopoly telco... they don't care. Right now, the government forces us to use a big telco. Althea seems like a viable solution to breaking up that cartel and getting that power out of the hand of the government. Force-by-design is impossible unless that design is the only design adopted (which seem highly unlikely in any scenario). I'd say I'm less interested in the idea of Community Networks and more interested in smashing the State and the big telco monopolies. Though I think I can do both. -- Patrick Binder ---- On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 15:26:38 -0600 guifipedro <guifipedro at gmail.com> wrote ---- Some thoughts to share. Money (value represented in 1D, in R (Real Number) set) is by design a flaw that fails systematically on its purpose of representing "the real value". There is no interest on representing "the real value", the interesting thing is to add a layer on top of that most of the people cannot participate, and use that benefit to cheat, to manipulate, hence, to have some kind of invisible and intellectual power over everything. The 1D price of the things is arbitrary. Today is low because I want to destroy my competitor, tomorrow is high because they depend on me. Wins who has higher financial muscle; which is proportional to intrinsic power. Capitalist found a nice way to continue grow richness and power without control thanks to cryptocurrencies. These days we are changing the trust to specific people for a trust on algorithms (intrinsically, trust on machines). The thing is that they fail [0], and they are going to fail [1]. And in some circunstances, we don't trust algorithms, but we have to obey. We need automation and better practices on our networks, and some of you decided that blockchain is here to save us. So here is a conflict, you put the word blockchain in your project and then millions of coins appeared. Then, you have a problem to justify that millions of coins; not the rest. Just think about some of us, skeptics of this hypechain, we believe we should continue working like we are doing now (or reaching another direction, probably far from blockchain). Blockchain developers, please, when you design your solutions, design something that allow the network to continue like it is now (partially conducted by volunteers, with pirates and free riders, partially funded by FIAT with public and private sector participation, etc. - and depends on the case). And of course, a flag in the configuration to disable the crypto thing and not participate. Because if you **force by design** everybody to participate like you want/think (putting the logo of a community network), or putting your software at the routing level (insert coins to continue using Internet); then you are playing the same game as FIAT, governments and profit corporations. [0] algorithm bubles promoted by " ' social networks ' " https://stareintothelightsmypretties.jore.cc/ [1] great financial algorithms going on https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2018/09/20/next-financial-crisis/#305745e86461 _______________________________________________ Battlemesh mailing list Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org http://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
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