[Battlemesh] WBMv9 Hostel Invoices

Wed Jul 20 07:35:37 CEST 2016

Can you please chill out a bit.

You are coming down very hard on Philipe and it is totally uncalled for.

Yes, maybe your points are valid, that still does not justify you tone.

Philipe did a great job at WBM, a really great job.
And maybe he made a mistake here with the invoices.
So What?

He is responsible and trying to correct it by reaching out to everyone, 
and you are coming down hard on him. Kind of unfair don't you think?

And on top of that, you just could have asked for an invoice yourself.
I personally did and received it just fine.

IMHO you own Philipe an apology.

BTW, coming down hard on someone is very impolite, and that is 
aggrevated by not using your real name in your emails. If you are trying 
to make a point, then this is not the way.

On 19/07/16 23:10, cmsv wrote:
> Lets get a few things straight Mr Teixeira,
>
> - Do not try to make me look like I am blaming the participants with my
> 2 second email. ONCE again I am NOT.
>
> - Do not blame wbmv9 participants for not having received the invoice
> and making them feel responsible because they "forgot".
> Over 95% of the participants are not Portuguese and not familiar with
> the portuguese system. Do not make this their fault! Portuguese law is
> quite clear. We do not need to remember asking for invoices. We must to
> be provided with one without questions.
>
> - You also state that you do not see anyone irresponsible here. Really ?
> You were in charge of asking for the money for payments. Not the
> hostels. YOU kept sending emails to everyone about the payments while
> you took care of that part of the organization. For that you take all
> responsibility and credit but after that, you spend over 2 months silent
> about wbmv9.
>
> And yet, you have no responsibility or care in letting people know that
> they were entitled to their invoices without requesting them and you
> transfer that responsibility to the hostel as well as the participants
> under the excuse that they forgot. Really ?
>
> If you were interested in being transparent why did you not inform
> everyone during and right after wbmv9 event about the invoices the same
> way you did when it was time to pay ?
> How come you only take responsibility to make sure the hostels receive
> money but it is OUR fault (the participants) that it did not received
> the receipts/invoices ?
>
> Everyday you were giving meal tickets an calling everyone for shirts.
> Yet it takes over 2 months to tell us that we forgot to ask for
> something that has to be provided by law without being requested ?
>
> The only reason you don't see anyone responsible is because you lack
> mirrors around you. You are responsible for more than this. Give it some
> time, and you will be notified of more.
>
> - The real problem is transparency in your actions and we both know what
> I am talking about. In fact a few other people also know even before
> wbmv9 was started in regards to a few possible things that could happen
> in this event. The more you talk the better it is. There are people
> reading this email without any surprise.
>
> - You claim that Portuguese business are in order with the portuguese
> tax system. Are you their accountant ? I would be cautious about that
> statement 'mister 100% certainty'.
>
> - You do not see the point of this discussion because it is not
> favourable to you. Why would you ? Really ?
> The hostels took care of the process alone ? You had no role in the
> events and payments ? Is that it ? Now you have nothing to do with the
> event after it is done when you are asked about things by other people.
>
> - What makes sense to you or Inesc and or hostels has no weight in a
> court of law. Your personal opinion has no relevance to lawyers, judges
> and or courts. Would like to debate that ?
>
> - Have some INTEGRITY that you did not have during with events with some
> people and don't discard yourself for your role and responsibilities
> with the organization of wbmv9 and try not to transfer the consequences
> of your actions to other people and leave participants in the dark.
>
> If anyone did not get their invoices, you have enough contacts
> information to get that solved without making the participants
> themselves having to waste their time to get this solved.
>
> Participants do not need to ask for the invoices. They must be provided
> and not 2 months later when someone else found a problem somewhere.
> Get it done like you did to ask us for money and get everyone else
> provided with invoices in a secure way. Most of the participants are
> outside Portugal, travel often and or may not be able to take care of this.
> At a very minimum you have ethical responsibilities here to clear all
> this if you want to ignore the rest.
>
> Get it taken care of responsibly or a could phone calls can squeeze some
> people to get it done.
>
> - You were not the only one working really hard for the event! But YOU
> sure worked also REALLY hard to shade someone else that did also worked
> really hard for it and have all the credit for YOUR personal career profit.
>
> Also note that my questions to you are rhetorical. Use some of that
> academic knowledge to understand it if nothing else.
>
> You look like a grown man. Act accordingly. There are many people
> reading this. You have responsibility and you took it from day one when
> you decided to participate in the wbmv9 event.
>
>
> On 07/19/2016 04:19 PM, Filipe Borges Teixeira wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2016-07-19 20:32 GMT+01:00 cmsv <cmsv at wirelesspt.net>:
>>
>>> Under Portuguese law, no one needs to request an invoice/receipt upon
>>> buying goods or receive services.
>>>
>>> Mr Teixeira (local organization team & hostel) are obligated to provide
>>> that, WITHOUT being requested. We, who paid for it should have been
>>> provided immediately with the invoices/receipts.
>>
>>
>>> The reason why Mr Teixeira is now being 'squeezed'/asked about this and
>>> emailing the list is also the same reason that he will be asked about a
>>> few other things that he did due to lack of ethics and was author of.
>>>
>>> They had lot of time to take care of some things they caused. And this
>>> email is no coincidence regarding wmbv6 events. They have been silent
>>> for over 2 months until some else brought wbmv9 to the mailing list today.
>>>
>>> He did not misunderstand me. He purposely tried to pretend he was not
>>> responsible and making look like I was blaming other people and there is
>>> more to this story.
>>>
>>> Government info:
>>>
>>> http://info.portaldasfinancas.gov.pt/pt/informacao_fiscal/codigos_tributarios/civa_rep/iva29.htm
>>>
>>> Translation:
>>> b) issue an invoice must for every transfer of goods or services as are
>>> set out in Articles 3 and 4, regardless of the quality of the buyer of
>>> goods or recipient of services, even if they do not request it, as well
>>> as the payments made to them before the date of transfer of goods or
>>> the provision of services; (DL Drafting No. 197/2012, of 24 August, with
>>> entry into force on January 1, 2013)
>>>
>>
>> I read your statements twice, and I do not see what the real problem is
>> here. If you do not have your invoice I can ask the hostel and make sure
>> that it is sent to your e-mail.
>>
>> I do not feel squeezed, I just do not see the point in having this
>> discussion, specially here. If you have any other doubts or question about
>> the billing process for the accommodation package or about the Portuguese
>> law I can get you in touch with the hostel manager: they were the ones who
>> took care of the process. It would make no sense for INESC to bill for
>> rooms and breakfast.
>>
>> Here at INESC we took care of sponsorship money and all other expenses,
>> including travel grants, promotion, t-shirts, food supply and social events
>> and we worked really hard to make everything free/as cheap as possible, and
>> still have some money left for v10. If you want more details about that
>> process I can get you in contact with our accounting staff.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Filipe Teixeira
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.megamaior.pt/site/upload/files/OTOC20130121.pdf
>>>
>>> Quote without translation extracted from the pdf:
>>>
>>> "Obrigatoriedade de emissão de faturas
>>> (entrada em vigor a 1 de janeiro de 2013)
>>> A emissão de fatura passará a ser obrigatória para todas as transmissões
>>> de bens e presta
>>> -
>>> ções de serviços, independentemente da qualidade do adquirente dos bens
>>> ou destinatário
>>> dos  serviços  e  ainda  que  estes  não  a  solicitem,  qualquer  que
>>> seja  o  setor  de  atividade  em
>>> causa (alínea b) do nº 1 do artigo 29º do CIVA)"
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/19/2016 03:08 PM, Linus Lüssing wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 02:40:38PM -0400, cmsv wrote:
>>>>> quote:
>>>>> "There was plenty of time since the battlemesh until now for responsible
>>>>> people to take care of that were they ever interested in doing so and
>>>>> making it available."
>>>>>
>>>>> Local organization team was/is responsible for making it available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do NOT EVER AGAIN twist my words.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Filipe did that on purpose. I had to read the
>>>> sentence you quoted + context twice, too.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Linus
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
>>>> http://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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-- 
Ferry Huberts