[Battlemesh] building and supporting imaginary

Pedro pedro at cas.cat
Thu Apr 27 20:23:22 CEST 2023


Hi Ignifugo,

I like your proposal, in general, current logo is very minimal, and 
adding things on top of it could make it more attractive and appealing. 
Also outreaching communities out there to make them know about the event 
and our inclusive values

So please do so, I think there is no doubt we all want a diverse and 
peaceful community

Gancio instance, what a good idea, there is a gancio instance in 
Barcelona that is https://bcn.convoca.la/

I perceive that in general, the catalan culture activity, is respectful 
with women

As a curiosity, and cultural sharing thing, can you please link me in 
detail about the "high king of the sky" christian celebration?

Regarding "castells":

I am seeing several women when I look into two of the most important 
"colles castelleres" (groups) [1], not presidents (only looked on the 
two most important), and I don't know why, I don't know enough.

I am not really aware of human castles, but I heard it is very 
demanding; that there is people that only live for that

I am not aware of who is "Mariona Galindo", but that is a proof that 
women participate in catalan human castles. Looks like she had an 
accident, because what they did is very difficult, and sometimes risky 
for human health, it is a complex challenge between human, gravity, and 
it require a lot of cooperation of all to succeed. For the few things I 
know about this (modern) tradition, it is very different with what we 
are used to see in other human activities that populate so much people 
in a place, such as sports and other mainstream activities. There is a 
strong sense of respect, and a sense of collective; respecting the 
others, so it is very nice to see

Cheers and see you soon!
Pedro

[1]
https://www.minyons.cat/la-colla/junta/
here you can see, in fact, a feminist comission "comissió feminista"
https://www.castellersdevilafranca.cat/els-castellers/organitzacio-interna/junta-tecnica/

in wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castellers_de_Vilafranca
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minyons_de_Terrassa

On 4/27/23 17:46, ignifugo via Battlemesh wrote:
>
>
> On 25/04/23 13:20, Pedro via Battlemesh wrote:
>> Hi Ignifugo
>>
>> Human castles are made by humans
>>
>> Each human have its body and features that help in its way to make 
>> the castle better
>>
>> Here, you see women participating, they collect their hair to 
>> facilitate the climbing, example: 
>> https://monterrassa.cat/cultura/minyons-terrassa-ciutat-tornen-vacances-castells-8-281920/
>>
>> And there is also a lot of videos online, example: 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hknOYSrYHB4
>>
>> if you want to see more images, use the keyword "castells" or find 
>> one for a particular one as I did 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castell#In_Catalonia_and_Catalan-speaking_regions
>>
>> Do you want to share a more specific counterproposal of logo?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pedro
>>
>
>
>
> On 25/04/23 13:20, Pedro via Battlemesh wrote:
> > Hi Ignifugo
> >
> > Human castles are made by humans
> >
> > Each human have its body and features that help in its way to make 
> the castle better
> >
> > Here, you see women participating, they collect their hair to 
> facilitate the climbing, example: 
> https://monterrassa.cat/cultura/minyons-terrassa-ciutat-tornen-vacances-castells-8-281920/
> >
> > And there is also a lot of videos online, example: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hknOYSrYHB4
> >
> > if you want to see more images, use the keyword "castells" or find 
> one for a particular one as I did 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castell#In_Catalonia_and_Catalan-speaking_regions
> >
>
> hi Pedro, and hi battlemesh people
>
> thank for explain your cultural point of view..
> And thank to walk with me in the exploration of the meanings.. that 
> not exist only ones and there is not one right on the others.. only 
> some dominants and other sufferings..
>
> Really because I'm not of your region, so we need to have clear a lot 
> of levels and try to respect the culture of the others.
>
> So I took a bit to go to read the story of Castells as you linked to 
> me.. because self-teaching is important
>
> But .. in hipotetic way that someone know nothing about castells , 
> imho, other people and me.. can see only "a piramid of men"
>
> To be clear, for me that I was born in Italy make me remember some 
> Cristian celebration... normally against women (but with women inside) 
> and celebrating suffering for the "high king of the sky"... horrible 
> for me personally. And is why I started this topic.
>
> That for my point of view is problematic for the meaning of power that 
> brings (to my eyes):
> - the shape: verticistic with only one high point.. (I prefer a lots 
> small and decentralized human buildings)
> - the missing agreement with other humans that are not man.
>
> So.. I asked your helps to resolve this.. but at the end probably I 
> have a direct proposal for the solution:
>
> 1- I would like have also another flyer with this kind of meaning less 
> evident
>
> this is my proposal: https://pic.infini.fr/OQf6Cw5O/ygNMr5rA.png
>
> this is the GIMP file to modify: 
> https://drop.chapril.org/download/638c317dcfa9e355/#OIAOoQ_v4W_wnuWVoI31TQ
>
> --> if we pay a good and antisexism/antiracist graphic designer we'll 
> do it faster ūüėĄ I only gave the idea, but i have work today, sorry...
>
> 2- be explicit for decentralization and against sexism, colonialism 
> and racism.
>
> and send an email to the radical communityes of 
> hackers/feminist/lgbtq/migrants/rurals... to invite to partecipate... 
> I think exist also a gancio instance in Barna (gancio is a federated 
> activity pub software... https://gancio.org/instances) where we can 
> freely publish..
>
> to promote the event and saiyng why we decided to have two posters.
> I can write, but only If we have no more doubts, otherwise we postpone 
> the "inclusion" to another year.
>
> Because if we invite people who are different from us and then offend 
> them, then it could become a worse problem
> So depend from all... what do you say?
> how do you feel?
>
> 3- decide together a strategy to speak during the battlemesh of 
> decentralization of power, racism and sexism to be more humans in the 
> meeting.
>
> what do you think?
>
> hugs Ignifugo
>
> EXTRA:
>
> Genial! I found a version of the bechdel test for human building!
> here the image:https://pic.infini.fr/gallery#CGeruvRL/9fK8Tn3y.jpeg
>
> here the article:
> https://circustalk.com/news/does-the-bechdel-test-have-a-place-in-circus
>
> Second extra:
>
> I checked also the partecipation of the women in catalunia Castellas 
> and I discovered that exist some places and some "house of women to 
> not live violence" that dedicated activities to remember Mariona 
> Galindo, a young women active in castellas, that died going up the 
> higher point of human a tower in 2006.
>
> https://www.ara.cat/castells/santa-anna-emociona-recordant-mariona-galindo_1_1573776.html 
>
>
> I searched but doesn't exist wikipedia page of Mariona Galindo in 
> wikipedia in catalano
>
> https://ca.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=mariona+galindo&title=Especial%3ACerca&ns0=1 
>
>
> thats' a bit sad.. maybe women are still under-rappresented in the 
> catalan culture of castellas? and in tech culture of catalunia?
>
> I looked but didn't find..
> Does exist Castellas managed (in the meaning of power) from women?
>
> hugs
> Ignifugo
>
>
> >
> > On 4/25/23 12:50, ignifugo via Battlemesh wrote:
> >> ciao people,
> >>
> >> I start speaking in my language, and after I try to translate.
> >> english at the end...
> >>
> >>
> >> Vorrei porvi l'attenzione che un logo a piramide, piena di uomini 
> muscolosi:
> >>
> >> 
> https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png
> >>
> >> non è immaginario ospitale per tutti.
> >>
> >> So che Barcellona è una pratica autoctona e probabilmente anche 
> solo maschile ed ancora tradizionalmente chiusa...
> >>
> >> Quindi vi chiedo, che cosa si fa perchè una simbologia simile non 
> si traduca in un invito SOLO verso la classe dominante della regione?
> >>
> >> Lo chiedo perchè sono preoccupata e vi chiederei in che modo 
> possiamo fare detourment di ciò.
> >>
> >> Capisco che siamo a quasi 2 settimane dall'evento... e quindi è 
> pure un pacco sta cosa..
> >> mi chiedo quanto sia mista l'organizzazione e quanto ci sia 
> interrogati sullì'apertura verso i non uomini bianchi.
> >>
> >> Che storicamente per noi è un problema ed anche visualmente, 
> rappresentare piramidi, per un gruppo che gestisce collegamenti p2p 
> orizzontali, non sia assurdo.
> >>
> >> Una mia proposta può essere che facciamo un altro disegno ad 
> asterisco, sommando molte di quelle piramidine differenti, fino a 
> costruire una rete e facciamo un comunicato, esprimendo semplicemente 
> che ci siam sbagliate..
> >> e e lo diffondiamo a tutti i gruppi transfemministi di Barna e le 
> hacklab..
> >> che ne dite?
> >> il resto non lo cambiamo, ma anzi usiamo questo erroruccio per 
> aprire dialogo..
> >>
> >> che ne dite?
> >>
> >> bacetti
> >> Ignifugo
> >> ___________________________________________
> >>
> >> ciao
> >>
> >> I would like to bring to your attention that a pyramid logo, full 
> of muscular men:
> >>
> >> 
> https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png
> >>
> >> is not hospitable imagery for everyone.
> >>
> >> I know that Barcelona is an indigenous and probably even male-only 
> practice and still traditionally closed....
> >>
> >> So I ask you, what is being done so that such symbolism does not 
> result in an invitation ONLY toward the dominant class of the region? 
> but we are in time if we want to
> >>
> >> I ask this because I am concerned and would ask you in what ways we 
> can detourment this.
> >>
> >> I understand that we are almost 2 weeks away from the event--and so 
> it is a package thing as well....
> >> I wonder how mixed the organization is and how questioned we are 
> about being open to non-white men.
> >>
> >> That historically for us is an issue and also visually, 
> representing pyramids, for a group that runs horizontal p2p links, is 
> not absurd.
> >>
> >> A proposal of mine may be that we do another asterisk design, 
> adding up a lot of those different pyramids, until we build a network, 
> and we make a statement, simply expressing that we were wrong
> >> and and we spread it to all the transfeminist groups in Barna and 
> the hacklab...
> >> what do you say?
> >> the rest we don't change it, but we use this sort of mistake to 
> open dialogue..
> >>
> >> kisses
> >> Ignifugo
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Battlemesh mailing list
> >> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
> >> https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Battlemesh mailing list
> > Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
> > https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
>
>> On 4/25/23 12:50, ignifugo via Battlemesh wrote:
>>> ciao people,
>>>
>>> I start speaking in my language, and after I try to translate.
>>> english at the end...
>>>
>>>
>>> Vorrei porvi l'attenzione che un logo a piramide, piena di uomini 
>>> muscolosi:
>>>
>>> https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png 
>>>
>>>
>>> non è immaginario ospitale per tutti.
>>>
>>> So che Barcellona è una pratica autoctona e probabilmente anche solo 
>>> maschile ed ancora tradizionalmente chiusa...
>>>
>>> Quindi vi chiedo, che cosa si fa perchè una simbologia simile non si 
>>> traduca in un invito SOLO verso la classe dominante della regione?
>>>
>>> Lo chiedo perchè sono preoccupata e vi chiederei in che modo 
>>> possiamo fare detourment di ciò.
>>>
>>> Capisco che siamo a quasi 2 settimane dall'evento... e quindi è pure 
>>> un pacco sta cosa..
>>> mi chiedo quanto sia mista l'organizzazione e quanto ci sia 
>>> interrogati sullì'apertura verso i non uomini bianchi.
>>>
>>> Che storicamente per noi è un problema ed anche visualmente, 
>>> rappresentare piramidi, per un gruppo che gestisce collegamenti p2p 
>>> orizzontali, non sia assurdo.
>>>
>>> Una mia proposta può essere che facciamo un altro disegno ad 
>>> asterisco, sommando molte di quelle piramidine differenti, fino a 
>>> costruire una rete e facciamo un comunicato, esprimendo 
>>> semplicemente che ci siam sbagliate..
>>> e e lo diffondiamo a tutti i gruppi transfemministi di Barna e le 
>>> hacklab..
>>> che ne dite?
>>> il resto non lo cambiamo, ma anzi usiamo questo erroruccio per 
>>> aprire dialogo..
>>>
>>> che ne dite?
>>>
>>> bacetti
>>> Ignifugo
>>> ___________________________________________
>>>
>>> ciao
>>>
>>> I would like to bring to your attention that a pyramid logo, full of 
>>> muscular men:
>>>
>>> https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png 
>>>
>>>
>>> is not hospitable imagery for everyone.
>>>
>>> I know that Barcelona is an indigenous and probably even male-only 
>>> practice and still traditionally closed....
>>>
>>> So I ask you, what is being done so that such symbolism does not 
>>> result in an invitation ONLY toward the dominant class of the 
>>> region? but we are in time if we want to
>>>
>>> I ask this because I am concerned and would ask you in what ways we 
>>> can detourment this.
>>>
>>> I understand that we are almost 2 weeks away from the event--and so 
>>> it is a package thing as well....
>>> I wonder how mixed the organization is and how questioned we are 
>>> about being open to non-white men.
>>>
>>> That historically for us is an issue and also visually, representing 
>>> pyramids, for a group that runs horizontal p2p links, is not absurd.
>>>
>>> A proposal of mine may be that we do another asterisk design, adding 
>>> up a lot of those different pyramids, until we build a network, and 
>>> we make a statement, simply expressing that we were wrong
>>> and and we spread it to all the transfeminist groups in Barna and 
>>> the hacklab...
>>> what do you say?
>>> the rest we don't change it, but we use this sort of mistake to open 
>>> dialogue..
>>>
>>> kisses
>>> Ignifugo
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Battlemesh mailing list
>>> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
>>> https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Battlemesh mailing list
>> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
>> https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
> _______________________________________________
> Battlemesh mailing list
> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
> https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh

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