[Battlemesh] building and supporting imaginary

Thu Apr 27 17:46:00 CEST 2023

On 25/04/23 13:20, Pedro via Battlemesh wrote:
> Hi Ignifugo
> 
> Human castles are made by humans
> 
> Each human have its body and features that help in its way to make the 
> castle better
> 
> Here, you see women participating, they collect their hair to facilitate 
> the climbing, example: 
> https://monterrassa.cat/cultura/minyons-terrassa-ciutat-tornen-vacances-castells-8-281920/
> 
> And there is also a lot of videos online, example: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hknOYSrYHB4
> 
> if you want to see more images, use the keyword "castells" or find one 
> for a particular one as I did 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castell#In_Catalonia_and_Catalan-speaking_regions
> 
> Do you want to share a more specific counterproposal of logo?
> 
> Cheers,
> Pedro
> 

On 25/04/23 13:20, Pedro via Battlemesh wrote:
 > Hi Ignifugo
 >
 > Human castles are made by humans
 >
 > Each human have its body and features that help in its way to make 
the castle better
 >
 > Here, you see women participating, they collect their hair to 
facilitate the climbing, example: 
https://monterrassa.cat/cultura/minyons-terrassa-ciutat-tornen-vacances-castells-8-281920/
 >
 > And there is also a lot of videos online, example: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hknOYSrYHB4
 >
 > if you want to see more images, use the keyword "castells" or find 
one for a particular one as I did 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castell#In_Catalonia_and_Catalan-speaking_regions
 >

hi Pedro, and hi battlemesh people

thank for explain your cultural point of view..
And thank to walk with me in the exploration of the meanings.. that not 
exist only ones and there is not one right on the others.. only some 
dominants and other sufferings..

Really because I'm not of your region, so we need to have clear a lot of 
levels and try to respect the culture of the others.

So I took a bit to go to read the story of Castells as you linked to 
me.. because self-teaching is important

But .. in hipotetic way that someone know nothing about castells , imho, 
other people and me.. can see only "a piramid of men"

To be clear, for me that I was born in Italy make me remember some 
Cristian celebration... normally against women (but with women inside) 
and celebrating suffering for the "high king of the sky"... horrible for 
me personally. And is why I started this topic.

That for my point of view is problematic for the meaning of power that 
brings (to my eyes):
- the shape: verticistic with only one high point.. (I prefer a lots 
small and decentralized human buildings)
- the missing agreement with other humans that are not man.

So.. I asked your helps to resolve this.. but at the end probably I have 
a direct proposal for the solution:

1- I would like have also another flyer with this kind of meaning less 
evident

this is my proposal: https://pic.infini.fr/OQf6Cw5O/ygNMr5rA.png

this is the GIMP file to modify: 
https://drop.chapril.org/download/638c317dcfa9e355/#OIAOoQ_v4W_wnuWVoI31TQ

--> if we pay a good and antisexism/antiracist graphic designer we'll do 
it faster 😄 I only gave the idea, but i have work today, sorry...

2- be explicit for decentralization and against sexism, colonialism and 
racism.

and send an email to the radical communityes of 
hackers/feminist/lgbtq/migrants/rurals... to invite to partecipate... I 
think exist also a gancio instance in Barna (gancio is a federated 
activity pub software... https://gancio.org/instances) where we can 
freely publish..

to promote the event and saiyng why we decided to have two posters.
I can write, but only If we have no more doubts, otherwise we postpone 
the "inclusion" to another year.

Because if we invite people who are different from us and then offend 
them, then it could become a worse problem
So depend from all... what do you say?
how do you feel?

3- decide together a strategy to speak during the battlemesh of 
decentralization of power, racism and sexism to be more humans in the 
meeting.

what do you think?

hugs Ignifugo

EXTRA:

Genial! I found a version of the bechdel test for human building!
here the image:https://pic.infini.fr/gallery#CGeruvRL/9fK8Tn3y.jpeg

here the article:
https://circustalk.com/news/does-the-bechdel-test-have-a-place-in-circus

Second extra:

I checked also the partecipation of the women in catalunia Castellas and 
I discovered that exist some places and some "house of women to not live 
violence" that dedicated activities to remember Mariona Galindo, a young 
women active in castellas, that died going up the higher point of human 
a tower in 2006.

https://www.ara.cat/castells/santa-anna-emociona-recordant-mariona-galindo_1_1573776.html

I searched but doesn't exist wikipedia page of Mariona Galindo in 
wikipedia in catalano

https://ca.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=mariona+galindo&title=Especial%3ACerca&ns0=1

thats' a bit sad.. maybe women are still under-rappresented in the 
catalan culture of castellas? and in tech culture of catalunia?

I looked but didn't find..
Does exist Castellas managed (in the meaning of power) from women?

hugs
Ignifugo

 >
 > On 4/25/23 12:50, ignifugo via Battlemesh wrote:
 >> ciao people,
 >>
 >> I start speaking in my language, and after I try to translate.
 >> english at the end...
 >>
 >>
 >> Vorrei porvi l'attenzione che un logo a piramide, piena di uomini 
muscolosi:
 >>
 >> 
https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png
 >>
 >> non è immaginario ospitale per tutti.
 >>
 >> So che Barcellona è una pratica autoctona e probabilmente anche solo 
maschile ed ancora tradizionalmente chiusa...
 >>
 >> Quindi vi chiedo, che cosa si fa perchè una simbologia simile non si 
traduca in un invito SOLO verso la classe dominante della regione?
 >>
 >> Lo chiedo perchè sono preoccupata e vi chiederei in che modo 
possiamo fare detourment di ciò.
 >>
 >> Capisco che siamo a quasi 2 settimane dall'evento... e quindi è pure 
un pacco sta cosa..
 >> mi chiedo quanto sia mista l'organizzazione e quanto ci sia 
interrogati sullì'apertura verso i non uomini bianchi.
 >>
 >> Che storicamente per noi è un problema ed anche visualmente, 
rappresentare piramidi, per un gruppo che gestisce collegamenti p2p 
orizzontali, non sia assurdo.
 >>
 >> Una mia proposta può essere che facciamo un altro disegno ad 
asterisco, sommando molte di quelle piramidine differenti, fino a 
costruire una rete e facciamo un comunicato, esprimendo semplicemente 
che ci siam sbagliate..
 >> e e lo diffondiamo a tutti i gruppi transfemministi di Barna e le 
hacklab..
 >> che ne dite?
 >> il resto non lo cambiamo, ma anzi usiamo questo erroruccio per 
aprire dialogo..
 >>
 >> che ne dite?
 >>
 >> bacetti
 >> Ignifugo
 >> ___________________________________________
 >>
 >> ciao
 >>
 >> I would like to bring to your attention that a pyramid logo, full of 
muscular men:
 >>
 >> 
https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png
 >>
 >> is not hospitable imagery for everyone.
 >>
 >> I know that Barcelona is an indigenous and probably even male-only 
practice and still traditionally closed....
 >>
 >> So I ask you, what is being done so that such symbolism does not 
result in an invitation ONLY toward the dominant class of the region? 
but we are in time if we want to
 >>
 >> I ask this because I am concerned and would ask you in what ways we 
can detourment this.
 >>
 >> I understand that we are almost 2 weeks away from the event--and so 
it is a package thing as well....
 >> I wonder how mixed the organization is and how questioned we are 
about being open to non-white men.
 >>
 >> That historically for us is an issue and also visually, representing 
pyramids, for a group that runs horizontal p2p links, is not absurd.
 >>
 >> A proposal of mine may be that we do another asterisk design, adding 
up a lot of those different pyramids, until we build a network, and we 
make a statement, simply expressing that we were wrong
 >> and and we spread it to all the transfeminist groups in Barna and 
the hacklab...
 >> what do you say?
 >> the rest we don't change it, but we use this sort of mistake to open 
dialogue..
 >>
 >> kisses
 >> Ignifugo
 >> _______________________________________________
 >> Battlemesh mailing list
 >> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
 >> https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
 >
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Battlemesh mailing list
 > Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
 > https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh

> On 4/25/23 12:50, ignifugo via Battlemesh wrote:
>> ciao people,
>>
>> I start speaking in my language, and after I try to translate.
>> english at the end...
>>
>>
>> Vorrei porvi l'attenzione che un logo a piramide, piena di uomini 
>> muscolosi:
>>
>> https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png
>>
>> non è immaginario ospitale per tutti.
>>
>> So che Barcellona è una pratica autoctona e probabilmente anche solo 
>> maschile ed ancora tradizionalmente chiusa...
>>
>> Quindi vi chiedo, che cosa si fa perchè una simbologia simile non si 
>> traduca in un invito SOLO verso la classe dominante della regione?
>>
>> Lo chiedo perchè sono preoccupata e vi chiederei in che modo possiamo 
>> fare detourment di ciò.
>>
>> Capisco che siamo a quasi 2 settimane dall'evento... e quindi è pure 
>> un pacco sta cosa..
>> mi chiedo quanto sia mista l'organizzazione e quanto ci sia 
>> interrogati sullì'apertura verso i non uomini bianchi.
>>
>> Che storicamente per noi è un problema ed anche visualmente, 
>> rappresentare piramidi, per un gruppo che gestisce collegamenti p2p 
>> orizzontali, non sia assurdo.
>>
>> Una mia proposta può essere che facciamo un altro disegno ad 
>> asterisco, sommando molte di quelle piramidine differenti, fino a 
>> costruire una rete e facciamo un comunicato, esprimendo semplicemente 
>> che ci siam sbagliate..
>> e e lo diffondiamo a tutti i gruppi transfemministi di Barna e le 
>> hacklab..
>> che ne dite?
>> il resto non lo cambiamo, ma anzi usiamo questo erroruccio per aprire 
>> dialogo..
>>
>> che ne dite?
>>
>> bacetti
>> Ignifugo
>> ___________________________________________
>>
>> ciao
>>
>> I would like to bring to your attention that a pyramid logo, full of 
>> muscular men:
>>
>> https://battlemesh.org/BattleMeshV15?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WBMv15-logo-v0.png
>>
>> is not hospitable imagery for everyone.
>>
>> I know that Barcelona is an indigenous and probably even male-only 
>> practice and still traditionally closed....
>>
>> So I ask you, what is being done so that such symbolism does not 
>> result in an invitation ONLY toward the dominant class of the region? 
>> but we are in time if we want to
>>
>> I ask this because I am concerned and would ask you in what ways we 
>> can detourment this.
>>
>> I understand that we are almost 2 weeks away from the event--and so it 
>> is a package thing as well....
>> I wonder how mixed the organization is and how questioned we are about 
>> being open to non-white men.
>>
>> That historically for us is an issue and also visually, representing 
>> pyramids, for a group that runs horizontal p2p links, is not absurd.
>>
>> A proposal of mine may be that we do another asterisk design, adding 
>> up a lot of those different pyramids, until we build a network, and we 
>> make a statement, simply expressing that we were wrong
>> and and we spread it to all the transfeminist groups in Barna and the 
>> hacklab...
>> what do you say?
>> the rest we don't change it, but we use this sort of mistake to open 
>> dialogue..
>>
>> kisses
>> Ignifugo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Battlemesh mailing list
>> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
>> https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Battlemesh mailing list
> Battlemesh at ml.ninux.org
> https://ml.ninux.org/mailman/listinfo/battlemesh